Voting for the Conservatives in the general election means voting for no NHS, according to author Marcus Chown.
He made the comments after NHS Providers chief executive Chris Hopson told Theresa May that many nurses are leaving the NHS to go and stack shelves in supermarkets.
Chown told Sam Delaney that he believes the Tories are deliberately restricting the NHS budget so that it fails - but this will bring suffering to everyone who uses the health service.
The author added that if the internal market of the NHS were abolished - which would mean health organisations had to purchase care from trusts - £10 billion would be freed.
However Alex Brummer, city editor of the Daily Mail, argued that this claim about nurses stacking shelves simply isn't a reality, because no numbers have been provided.
He also claimed that no-one in the Tories want to get rid of the NHS and problems with funding are simply an inevitable and necessary product of austerity. However he thinks the NHS should charge patients for missed appointments and introduce smart technology to improve the running of the NHS.
Listen to the full interview above