People need to take an interest in prisons and give them respect as prisoners wishing to turn their lives around currently face an uphill struggle.
That's according to convicted murderer and former prisoner Erwin James, who joined Jonny Gould and spoke about how he turned his life around after prison.
Now a Guardian columnist and editor of prison newspaper Inside Time, James told Jonny that when he received a life sentence he was "glad" because "my life had been a very painful life, for me, but more importantly for other people because of me, and I was glad it was over.
“The criminal mindset is a terrible place to be. You become very selfish, you don’t care about your victims, you don’t think about the impact of your crimes.
“It’s against the odds that any of those people in there make it as good citizens…because we as a society don’t care," he added. “I think it’s important that we take an interest in our prisons."
Listen to the full interview to find out more about his story