Julia Hartley-Brewer clashed with the director of an education research body over whether the 11-plus is fair to children of different backgrounds.
A report from Education Datalab, looking at the application of the selective tests in Kent, believes the odds are loaded against poorer children and kids from such background should get extra marks to compensate for their disadvantage.
Education Datalab director Rebecca Allen told Julia Hartley-Brewer that parents who are better-off can afford extra tutoring at home and this creates a vast disparity, with children not being offered preparation for the 11-plus at school.
Allen added that the tests are too short and unreliable and taking them is like rolling dice.
But Julia argued that life is unfair and, while we need to remove disparity in education as much as we can, the solution isn't to scrap ther 11-plus - but rather to prepare children properly for it.
Listen to the full interview above