Theresa May's former communications director Katie Perrior has passionately defended Boris Johnson in an animated debate on Sam Delaney's show.
Katie Perrior hailed Johnson's talent and personality in conversation with former Tory MP Jerry Hayes, who said Johnson was "set up to fail" by Theresa May and has succeeded admirably.
"He's the man who lied to the people, 350 million quid a week to the NHS and he knew darn well it was a lie," Hayes said. "So she basically said 'ok Boris, it's your mess, get it sorted. You are going to fail, you are going to show everybody who absolutely useless and thoroughly unpleasant you are."
But Perrior said "he's such a big beast in Conservative politics and if you'd left him out he'd have just talked on the sidelines.
"Sooner or later we're going to get what we ruddy well deserve in politics. Bland, boring people who fail to inspire.
"Whether or not you love Boris Johnson, he's none of that. He's a real character in politics and I want to see more of them."
"I long learnt, a long time ago, never to estimate Boris Johnson. A lot of people have written him off but he's always come back."
Hayes also suggested Johnson had the "attention span of a gnat" and didn't read his briefing notes - but Perrior said this was completely untrue.
Listen to the interview above.